Novak on C-SPAN

Bob Novak appeared on "Washington Journal" this morning. Full (and, we apologize: messy) transcript after the jump, including this gem: AND, BUT MY COMMENT WOULD BE ABOUT IT SEEMS LIKE THE FACTS OF THIS CASE ARE VERY DISTORTED AND THAT, BEFORE ANY INFORMATION WAS REALLY KNOWN BY THE MEDIA, IN PARTICULAR CHRIS MATTHEWS AND "HARDBALL," YOU KNOW HE TALKED ABOUT THIS ISSUE ALMOST EVERY DAY. THERE WAS A SEGMENT OF HIS PROGRAM THAT WAS DEVOTED TO THIS ISSUE. AND, YOU KNOW, JUST ABOUT EVERY DAY YOU TUNE IN, YOU WOULDN'T LEARN ANYTHING NEW, BUT YOU WOULD GET A LOT OF WHAT I WOULD CALL CONJECTURE, A LOT OF, WELL, IF THIS IS TRUE AND OUR GOVERNMENT IS DOING THIS, WHAT ELSE IS IT DOING? YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, LITERALLY, IF WERE YOU TO GO TO THE ARCHIVES, YOU'VE GOT LITERALLY DOZENS AND DOZENS, PERHAPS EVEN PERHAPS HUNDREDS OF HOURS BROADCASTING ON CONJECTURE WHAT ELSE IS OUR GOVERNMENT DOING IF IT IS DROPPING NAMES OF CIA OPERATIVES FOR POLITICAL USE. AND MY QUESTION WOULD BE HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK CHRIS MATTHEWS IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS STORY NOW THAT ALL OF HIS CONJECTURE IS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PROVEN TO BE MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING? Maybe he's just bitter because he wasn't invited to Chris' birthday party. C-SPANâ€™s Washington Journal Guest: Columnist Robert Novak Date: Friday, September 15, 2006 Transcript from Closed Captioning Please use with attribution to C-SPANâ€™s â€œWashington Journalâ€ >> Host: LET ME SHOW YOU SOME NEWSPAPER ARTICLES FROM YESTERDAY. THE ONE ON PAGE A-12 IS NOVAK ACCUSES PLAME SOURCE OF DISTORTION. ARMITAGE MINIMIZES ROLE IN LEAK. RIGHT BELOW IT TODAY IN TODAY'S NEW YORK TIMES BY DAVID JOHNSON HEADLINE COLUMNIST CONTRADICTS LEAK SOURCE, FIRST PARAGRAPH. ROBERT D. NOVAK, THE COLUMNIST WHO FIRST DISCLOSED THE IDENTITY OF THE INTELLIGENCE OFFICER IN THE CIA LEAK CASE HAS DISPUTED STATEMENTS BY HIS PRIMARY SOURCE RICHARD L. ARMITAGE WHO SAID HIS MENTION OF HER IDENTITY WAS FAD VER TAENT. GOOD MORNING MR. NOVAK. >> Guest: GOOD MORNING. >> Host: FIRST BEFORE I ASK BUT THAT WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN URBANA, ILLINOIS. >> Guest: HOME OF THE GREAT UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS, I'M AND ALUMNUS, CLASS OF '52. THIS IS A MEETING OF THE ANNUAL -- ANNUAL MEETING OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS FOUNDATION, OF WHICH I'M A MEMBER. >> Host: YOU'VE MADE NEWS IN THIS TOWN FOR THE LAST TWO DAYS. WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON JUST HOW PEOPLE ARE WRITING UP YOUR COLUMN? >> Guest: WELL, I THINK PEOPLE FOUND OF SOME INTEREST I DISPUTED MR. ARMITAGE'S ACCOUNT AND THE FIRST TIME I EVER DESCRIBED PUBLICLY WHAT HE HAD SAID TO ME. AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T -- I THOUGHT PEOPLE TOOK IT WITH SOME, I THINK, WITH SOME INTEREST, THOSE PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T HAVE AN AXE TO GRIND AND DIDN'T FEEL THAT SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER MY ACCOUNT WAS UNDERMINING THEIR PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS OF THE CASE. AND THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE, OF COURSE, WHO DID HAVE PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS OF THIS MUCH-EXAGGERATED CASE. >> Host: HOW MUCH MORE IS THERE TO COME OUT ON THIS STORY? >> Guest: I THINK, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO COME OUT. I THINK EVERYTHING HAS BEEN SAID. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY SECRETS, ANY SMOKING GUNS. THERE WAS A INDICTMENT AND CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OF LOUIS LIB BEE, WHICH HAS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT COURSE THAN MINE AND I HAVE NOT REALLY MADE MYSELF REAL AKUWAITED WITH THAT CASE AND NO KNOWING ABOUT IT THERE. MAY BE MORE MATERIAL TO COME OUT ON IT OR NOT. THE MAIN STORY HOW VALLEY PLAME WILSON'S NAME APPEARED IN MY COLUMN, I THINK EVERYBODY WHO READS NEWSPAPERS KNOWS EVERYTHING THERE IS NO KNOW. >> Host: WHEN THIS WHOLE STORY CAME OUT, HOW LONG AFTER IT CAME OUT, YOUR COLUMN AND THEN WHEN THE PROSECUTION STARTED, DID YOU KNOW THAT RICHARD ARMITAGE HAD TOLD THE PROSECUTOR THAT HE WAS THE LEAK? >> Guest: I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL QUITE RECENTLY THAT HE HAD TOLD THE PROSECUTOR. I KNEW THE PROSECUTOR, PATRICK FIFTHS GERALD, KNEW THAT AVERAGE TAJ WAS THE LEAK BECAUSE IN THE FIRST SECRET INTERROGATION OF ME IN MY LAWYER'S OFFICE EARLY IN 2004, THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR MR. FITZGERALD INDICATED HE KNEW THE IDENTITY OF NOT ONLY MY PRIMARY SOURCE BUT MY SECONDARY SOURCE AND MY TERCIORAY SOURCE, HE KNEW THOSE -- THEIR NAMES. HOW HE GOT THE NAMES, I DIDN'T KNOW AND DIDN'T KNOW THAT MR. ARMITAGE HAD VOLUNTEERED HIS NAME UNTIL, I GUESS, THE WEEK BEFORE LAST. >> Host: AT THAT TIME, WHEN YOU WERE ASKED, DID YOU CONFIRM IT? >> Guest: YES, I DID, BECAUSE HE HAD -- HE HAD THE INFORMATION, HE KNEW IT. THERE WAS NO POINT IN ME PLAYING GAMES WITH THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, PARTICULARLY SINCE MY LAWYERS HAD INFORMED ME THERE WAS VERY LITTLE CHANCE THAT IF I HAD REMAINED MUTE, SINCE HE HAD THE INFORMATION ANYWAY, THERE WAS VERY LITTLE CHANCE I WOULD HAVE PREVAILED IN THE SUPREME COURT, AT GREAT EXPENSE TO MYSELF. THE JOURNALISTS WHO DID GO ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT LOST THE CASE. THERE IS NO FIELD, THERE IS NO PRIVILEGE FOR WITHHOLDING THAT KINDS OF INFORMATION FOR JOURNALISTS, WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE OR NOT IS THE SUBJECT FOR ANOTHER PROGRAM, I WOULD IMAGINE. >> Host: SHOULD JUDY MILLER HAVE GONE TO JAIL? >> Guest: TO GO TO JAIL FOR NOT TALKING ABOUT A STORY SHE DIDN'T WRITE OFFENDS ME. I BLAME HER LAWYERS, HOWEVER, FOR TAKING HER DOWN THAT ROUTE. FIRST AMENDMENT LAWYERS FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES" WITH A -- WITH VERY DEEP POCKETS AND THERE WAS NO PAIN FOR THEM, NO PAIN FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES, GREAT DEAL OF TIME FOR JUDY MILLER AND HER CAREER. >> Host: RICHARD ARMITAGE WAS YOUR FIRST SOURCE. WHO WAS YOUR SECOND AND YOUR THIRD? >> Guest: THAT'S BEEN IDENTIFIED A LONG TIME AGO, AS YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY IDENTIFIED THEMSELVES. I IDENTIFIED NONE OF THESE SOURCES PUBLICLY AND IDENTIFIED NONE OF THEM TO THE AUTHORITIES. THEY ALL WERE -- THE AUTHORITIES FOUND OUT ABOUT THEM IN VARIOUS WAYS AND THE -- THEY IDENTIFIED THEMSELVES. THE SECOND SOURCE, WHICH WAS JUST A VERY QUICK CONFIRMATION WAS CARL ROVE, AND THE THIRD SOURCE WAS JUST A ROUTINE QUESTION TO THE PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER OF THE CIA, A MAN NAMED BILL HARLOW. SNOO HAVE YOU SEEN VICTORIA TESUNGâ€™S OP ED PIECE YET? >> Guest: NO. IT'S EARLY OUT HERE AND I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO READ IT YET. >> Host: LET ME READ THE FIRST TWO PARAGRAPHS FOR YOUR REACTION. RICHARD ARMITAGE FINALLY EMERGED FROM THE COVER MY BACK SIDE CLOSET APOLOGIZING ON CBS FOR KEEPING QUIET FOR ALMOST THREE YEARS ABOUT BEING THE ORIGINAL SOURCE FOR ROBERT NOVAK'S JULY 14, 200COLUMN STATING THAT JOE WILSON'S WIFE, VALERIE PLAME, WORKED FOR THE CIA AND HAD SUGGESTED HIM FOR A MISSION TO NIGER. ANY WITNESS IS FREE TO TALK ABOUT HIS OR HER TESTIMONY NOT TO DISCUSS THE MATTER. PUT ASIDE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF TAXPAYER FUNDS SQUANDERED ON THE INVESTIGATION. NEW YORK TIMES REPORTER JUDITH MILLER'S 85 DAYS IN JAIL, THE ANGT AND LEGAL FEES OF SCORES OF WITNESSES. THE WHITE HOUSE HELD SIEGE TO A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION WHILE FIGHTING THE WAR ON TERROR. CARL ROVE'S REPUTATION MALIGNED AND "SCOOTER" LIBBY'S RESIGNATION AND INDICTMENT. BY HER SILENCE, MR. ARMITAGE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ONE OF THE MOST FACTUALLY DISTORTED INVESTIGATIONS IN HISTORY. DO YOU AGREE. >> Guest: I DON'T KNOW IF I AGREE WITH EVERY WORD. I DON'T DISAGREE WITH IT. I WOULD SAY IT'S NOT MY STYLE OR THE KIND OF THING I WOULD WRITE BUT I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR HER AND CAN'T DISAGREE WITH ANY OF THE POINTS SHE MAKES? HOW'S THAT FOR A POLITICIAN'S ANSWER? >> Host: WHAT'S THE FALLOUT FROM THIS. WHAT THINGS IN THE FUTURE WILL HAVE CHANGED BECAUSE OF ALL THIS INVESTIGATION? >> Guest: WELL, THAT'S BASED ON THE THEORY THAT WASHINGTON LEARNS FROM MISTAKES AND YOU GO A DIFFERENT ROUTE AND WASHINGTON -- I WILL HAVE BEEN IN WASHINGTON 50 YEARS IN MAY AND THEY DON'T LEARN FROM MISTAKES. I WOULD THINK THAT GOVERNMENT, THAT PRESIDENT BUSH AND THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL ASHCROFT SHOULD KNOW THAT SPECIAL PROSECUTORS, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE EMPLOYEES OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AS PATRICK FITZGERALD INDICATED IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. THEY DON'T HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY TO A HIGHER AUTHORITY. THEY ALWAYS DRAG ON -- NOT ALWAYS BUT MOST OF THE TIME DRAG ON, DOWN SIDE ALLEYS. I WOULD SAY IF WASHINGTON LEARNED FROM ITS MISTAKES THEY WOULD HAVE SAID NO MORE SPECIAL PROSECUTORS BUT I WOULD SAY THEY SHOULD HAVE LEARNED THAT LESSON LONG AGO. >> Host: YOU GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF ALL THIS. WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR FORCING THE USE OF THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR IN THE FIRST PLACE, THE DEMOCRATS, THE REPUBLICANS, THE WHITE HOUSE? WHO MADE THIS HAPPEN? >> Guest: WELL, THERE WAS THE -- ENORMOUS HUE AND CRY DRUMMED UP BY LEFT-WING JOURNALISTS. AND SENATOR CHUCK SHUMER LEADING THE WAY, SOME VERY, VERY PARTISAN DEMOCRATS HYPED UP THE CASE WEEKS AFTER MY COLUMN RAN, BLEW THIS WHOLE CASE OUT OF PROPORTION, AS IF A GREAT NATIONAL SECRET HAD BEEN DIVULGED AND A GREAT INTELLIGENCE FAILURE HAD BEEN PERPETRATED. AND THE -- I THOUGHT THAT THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE PRESIDENT, OF COURSE, THEY HAD A LOT OF OTHER THINGS ON THEIR MINDS, CRACKED. THEY COULDN'T TAKE THE PRESSURE. ATTORNEY GENERAL ASHCROFT RECUSED HIMSELF. I DON'T THINK THAT WAS NECESSARY AT ALL. THEN HIS DEPUTY DECIDED TO NAME IS SPECIAL PROSECUTOR. THEN TAKEN OUT OF THE HANDS OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND WE WERE OFF THE TO THE RACES WITH A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR INVESTIGATION OF A CASE WHERE I THINK MISS TSENG IS QUITE CORRECT, THERE WAS NO CRIME COMMITTED. THEY KNEW VERY EARLY THERE WAS NO CRIME COMMITTED BY MY WRITING OF THE -- MISS -- MRS. WILSON'S NAME IN THE COLUMN AND THAT THEY KNEW THE I'DTY OF THE LEAKERS. SO, IT WAS A VERY UNNECESSARY INVESTIGATION CAUSING A LOT OF PAIN. I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME GREAT EMBARRASSMENTS BY SENATOR SHUMER AND THESE PEOPLE CALLING THIS ONE OF THE CRIMES OF THE CENTS REE AND GIVING SPEECHES ON THE SENATE FLOOR AND HAVING AD HOC HEARINGS, WHICH WERE, I BELIEVE, CARRIED ON C-SPAN WHEN IT WAS ALL MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING, IN MY OPINION. >> Host: ROBERT NOVAK IS OUR GUEST, BASED OUT THERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS THIS MORNING. WE HAVE CALLS FROM CLINTON, CONNECTICUT FIRST ONE UP. GO AHEAD, PLEASE. >> Caller: GOOD MORNING. IT'S BEEN SAID THAT ARMITAGE WAS PART OF THE INAUDIBLE CLIQUE. HE WAS ONE OF THE SIGNATORIES TO THE PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY URGING CLINTON TO GO TO WAR. HOW DOES THAT SQUARE? >> Guest: WELL, YOU WERE RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. HE WAS VERY CLOSE, HE AND COLIN POWELL, I'VE WRITTEN IN COLUMNS WERE JOINED AT THE HIP. THEY WERE SKEPTICS GOING TO WAR IN IRAQ, VERY CAUTIOUS. MATTER OF FKT, I WAS AGAINST GOING TO WAR IN IRAQ, BOTH IN MY TELEVISION APPEARANCES AND IN MY COLUMN, I WAS ONE OF THE FEW JOURNALISTS WHO SAID THERE WAS NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND IT WAS NOT IN OUR NATIONAL INTERESTS TO INTERVENE THERE. AND SO, IT'S -- IT'S REALLY RIDICULOUS TO SAY THIS WAS SOME KIND OF AN ATTEMPT TO ATTACK JOE WILSON BECAUSE HE WAS ANTI-WAR BY ONE OF THE FEW OFFICIALS IN THE ADMINISTRATION WHO WAS AINTS WAR AND BY ONE OF THE FEW CONSERVATIVE JOURNALISTS WHO WAS ANTI-WAR. >> Host: NEXT TO NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE. GOOD MORNING, YOU'RE ON WITH BOB NOVAK. >> Caller: GOOD MORNING. I GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. THE FIRST ONE WOULD BE A YES OR NO AND THEN I HAVE A FOLLOW-UP. DID HE SEE THE CBS INTERVIEW WITH DAVID MARKS AND ARMITAGE? >> Guest: YES. >> Caller: YOU DID. SO, IN THAT INTERVIEW, ARMITAGE SAYS THAT HE TOLD COLIN POWELL AND COLIN POWELL GOT WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. THIS ALL HAPPENED BEFORE THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR EVER COME INTO PLAY. WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THAT? >> Guest: WELL, I WISH YOU'D READ MY COLUMN, WHAT MY COLUMN WAS ALL ABOUT, WAS, I THOUGHT THAT MR. ARMITAGE WAS VERY DISINGENUOUS IN HIS INTERVIEW WITH MR. MARTIN BECAUSE HE INDICATED THAT, IN THE FIRST PLACE, HE INDICATED THAT HE HAD SAID HE THOUGHT THAT MRS. WILSON WORKED AT THE CIA AND JUST KIND OF SUGGESTED HE HAD HEARD THAT. WHEN, IN FACT, HE TOLD ME VERY FLATLY SHE WORKED THERE AND THATWHAT DIVISION SHE WORKED IN. HE ALSO INDICATED THIS WAS JUST CHIT-CHAT, IMPLYING HE NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD APPEAR IN PRINT WHEN, IN FACT, HE TOLD ME THAT HE THOUGHT THIS WAS THE KIND OF COLUMN THAT MY LATE PARTNER AND I SPECIALIZED IN, INSIDE WASHINGTON DOPE. I ALSO SAY IN THE COLUMN THAT IT'S DISENJEN IT'S DISINGENUOUS FOR ARMITAGE TO SAY HE COULDN'T REVEAL TO ANYBODY HE WAS THE SOURCE BECAUSE HE WAS ASKED TO BY THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WHEN, IN FACT, THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WAS NOT NAME UNTIL DECEMBER 30th, 2003. SHE HAVE KNOWN HE WAS THE FORCE WHEN THE COLUMN APPEARED JULY 14th, 2003. HE SAID HE DIDN'T REALIZE IT UNTIL -- UNTIL OCTOBER 1st. THAT STILL GAVE HIM THREE MONTHS BEFORE THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WAS NAMED, WHICH HE WAS TOTALLY FREE TO REVEAL HIS NAME HIMSELF AS THE SOURCE. >> Host: DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE AS TO WHEN THE PRESIDENT AND KARL ROVE AND THE PEOPLE AROUND THE VICE PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT HE WAS THE SOURCE? >> Guest: I DON'T. I DON'T REALLY KNOW THAT, THAT INFORMATION. THAT'S VERY CLOSELY HELD. I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND OUT. PRESIDENT STILL SAYS HE CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE OF THE CASE BY THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR. INVESTIGATION BY THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, WHICH SEEMS TO TOTALLY RUN ITS COURSE BUT THERE IS A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION THAT KEEPS LINGERING AGAINST "SCOOTER" LIBBEY. WHEN THE -- DID THE PRESIDENT KNOW UNTIL TWO WEEKS AGO THAT ARMITAGE WAS MY SOURCE? I HAPPEN TO KNOW FOR A FACT THAT HE DID, EXACTLY WHEN, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I HAVE A VERY GOOD SOURCE THAT INFORMS ME THAT HE DID KNOW. >> Host: THE THING HARD FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND, AT THAT POINT -- THIS WAS SUCH, A YOU KNOW, SPENT -- PRESS WAS SPENDING SO MUCH TIME ON IT -- WHY WOULDN'T THE PRESIDENT HAVE PICKED UP THE PHONE AND CALLED COLIN POWELL AND TALK TO DICK ARMITAGE AND GET HIM TO ANNOUNCE THIS THING AND GET THIS OVER WITH? >> Guest: I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT MANY TIMES. AND I, ALSO, SAID IN THE COLUMN -- I'M FREE IN THAT COLUMN TO SAY A LOT OF THING IN THAT COLUMN BECAUSE I WAS UNDER WRAPS AND A LOT CAME OUT IN -- IN THE BOOK BY ISIKOFF AND DAVID CORN. I SAID, ON OCTOBER 1st, THE DAY THE SECOND COLUMN RAN AND, AFTER IT WAS CLEAR THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WAS INVESTIGATING, THAT KEN DUBERSTEIN, THE FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF AND LOBBYIST TELEPHONED ME AND SAID THAT ARMITAGE WAS AFRAID THAT HE MIGHT HAVE INADVERTENTLY BEEN MY CHOICE AND CHECKING TO ME TO FIND OUT IF HE WAS MY SOURCE. I THOUGHT THAT WAS ABSOLUTE BLATHER, SO I DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION. OF COURSE, HE KNEW HE WAS MY SOURCE AND HE ALSO SAID THAT HE THOUGHT HE -- THAT MR. ARMITAGE WAS CONSIDERING TURNING HIMSELF IN AND RESIGNING AS DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE. I SAID, THAT WOULD BE UNFORTUNATE, MEANING I THOUGHT HE WAS A VALUABLE PUBLIC SERVANT BUT IT WAS HIS CHOICE AND, SO, HE VERY WELL COULD HAVE GONE PUBLIC AT THAT TIME. PERHAPS IT COULD HAVE COST HIM HIS JOB, BUT PERHAPS THE THING -- PROPER THING TO DO. I'M NOT MAKING THAT JUDGMENT. >> Host: RICHMOND, VIRGINIA FOR BOB NOVAK. >> Caller: YES, SIR. OKAY, I'M A NIXON REPUBLICAN AND CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT. HOW IS BUSH ABLE TO, ALL THESE FORCES THAT WERE SO HOSTILE TO NIXON, HE'S ABLE TO USE THEM TO HIS FAVOR? I MEAN, I MEAN, I GUESS YOU'D HAVE TO SAY NIXONâ€™S HOSTILITY TO THE RICH IS EVIDENTLY WHAT DID HIM IN, ESPECIALLY LIKE THIS BOB WOODWARD AND ESPECIALLY "THE WASHINGTON POST" BECAUSE YOU COMMENT ON THAT. THANK YOU. >> Host: BY THE WAY BOB NOVAK, DID BOB WOODWARD KNOW ABOUT THE STORY BEFORE OR AFTER YOU? >> Guest: ACCORDING -- ACCORDING TO HIS OWN INDICATIONS, HE KNEW ABOUT IT BEFORE ME BUT HE DIDN'T WRITE ANYTHING. THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY DON'T WRITE. I WROTE THIS AND THAT'S WHY IT BECAME A CONTROVERSY. I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY THEORY ON WHY NICKS SON DIDN'T SURVIVE AND GEORGE W. BUSH SURVIVES. >> Host: SPRINGFIELD, VIRGINIA, GO AHEAD. >> Caller: I'M A REPUBLICAN, BARELY HANGING ON TO BEING A REPUBLICAN IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE HERE WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONTINUES TO GET BLURRED IN THIS AND I THINK MR. NOVAK PLAYS A LARGE ROLE IN THIS IS THAT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THERE WAS A CRIME OF REVEALING VALERIE PLAME'S NAME, YOU KNOW, IT'S CLEAR THE ADMINISTRATION WAS POLITICIZING THIS AND USING IT TO ATTACK JOE WILSON. AND SO MUCH -- SO MUCH DISTORTIONS HAVE BEEN MADE AGAINST JOE WILSON AND HIS WIFE ON THIS. >> Host: LIKE WHAT, CALLER? >> Caller: EXCUSE ME? >> Host: LIKE WHAT? >> Caller: LIKE PEOPLE SAYING JOE WILSON ACTUALLY WAS THE PERSON WHO REVEALED HIS WIFE'S NAME, YOU KNOW, THAT REVEALED THAT SHE WAS A CIA OPERATIVE AND SHE REALLY WASN'T COVERT AND ALL THESE SORT OF THINGS. AND THERE'S PLENTY OF INDICATIONS OUT HERE THAT I WOULD THINK THAT MR. NOVAK IS NOW TALKING IN GREAT DEAL ABOUT THIS BECAUSE HE, HIMSELF, WAS ONE OF THE SUBJECTS OF THIS INVESTIGATION BY MR. FITZGERALD, NOT FOR A CRIME OF REVIEWING THIS BUT FOR BEING DISINGENUOUS OR FLAT-OUT LYING IN THE GRAND JURY, THE SAME THING THAT MR. LIBBY -- >> Host: ARE YOU SUGGESTING MR. NOVAK LIED TO THE GRAND JURY? >> Caller: I'M SUGGESTING THAT RIGHT NOW HE'S TRYING TO KEEP HIMSELF OUT OF LEGAL PROBLEMS AND, BY PUTTING THE ISSUE ON TO MR. ARMITAGE. I'M CERTAINLY NOT THE ONLY ONE SAYING THAT, I'VE BEEN READING ABOUT THAT ALREADY. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS THAT MR. NOVAK'S CURRENT PUBLIC RELATIONS ACT ON THIS IS ALL ABOUT THAT. >> Host: THANKS. >> Guest: YOU KNOW, I'M ALWAYS AMUSED BY THE REPUBLICANS. PEOPLE CALL IN AND SAY THEY ARE REPUBLICAN. NOW, YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THAT. YOU CAN HAVE A COMMUNIST CALL IN AND SAY HE'S A REPUBLICAN. THIS GUY IS ABOUT AS MUCH OF A REPUBLICAN AS MY FOOT IS. HE'S GOT THE WHOLE JOE WILSON LINE DOWN PAT. JOE WILSON WAS THE FIRST PERSON WHO KNEW THAT HIS WIFE WAS A COVERED EMPLOYEE, NOT A COVERT EMPLOYEE, WHO IDENTIFIED HER AS SUCH. THE POINT OF THE MATTER IS ABOUT MYSELF, I WAS NEVER -- I MEAN, I JUST DESPISE THESE PEOPLE AND BLOG GERS GETTING ON C-SPAN ON CALLS AND SAYING THINGS THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, NOT THE SLIGHTEST THING WITH NO RESPONSIBILITIES. I WAS NEVER A TARGET OF THIS INVESTIGATION. I WAS A COOPERATIVE WITNESS BECAUSE MY LAWYER AD MISSED ME TO BE. MY LAWYERS HAVE TOLD ME, ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH AND NEVER -- NEVER MAKE ANYTHING UP. IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER SOMETHING, SAY YOU DON'T REMEMBER IT. I WAS -- I WAS A TOTALLY COOPERATIVE AND RECEIVED THE THANKS FROM FOR MY COOPERATION FROM MR. FITZGERALD. I WAS NEVER A TARGET OF ANYTHING. I TESTIFIED UNDER OATH TO HIM, TO THE FBI, AND FINALLY TO THE GRAND JURY. THEY ASKED ME TO NOT REVEAL IT AND AT THEIR REQUEST I DID FOR THE REVEAL IT. I AM TALKING NOW NOT IN A PUBLIC RELATIONS ATTEMPT. I DON'T HAVE A TUB BLIK RELATIONS MAN, I'M NOT A POLITICIAN. I'M A JOURNALIST. AND UNDER JOURNALIST RULE I COULD NOT GIVE THE FINAL THING I KEPT SECRET, WHEN MY PRIMARY SOURCE WAS, UNTIL HE IDENTIFIED HIMSELF. NOT WHEN BOB WOODWARD IDENTIFIED HIM, WHICH HE DID, OF COURSE. OR BEN BRADLEY SUSPECTED THAT IT WAS MR. ARMITAGE. NOT WHEN -- I COULDN'T REVEAL HIM WHEN IT CAME OUT IN THE ISAKOFF-CORN BOOK, NOT UNTIL ARMITAGE WENT ON CSB WITH DAVID MARTIN AND SAID, YES, I AM THE SOURCE. THEN I WAS FREE TO VE VEAL IT. I GUARANTEE I AM IN NO DANGER OF BEING PROSECUTED BECAUSE I TOLD THE TRUTH AT ALL TIMES. >> Host: WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE SPECULATION THAT JOE WILSON WAS THE SOURCE OF THAT BOOK? >> Guest: HE WAS A BIG SOURCE. THAT'S A VERY ODD COUPLE. ISACOFF SAYS HE IS NON-IDEALOGICAL HE IS FROM THE "NATION MAGAZINE" AND IN MR. WILSON'S MEMOIR HE HAS CORN ADVISING HIM SAYING A LAW WAS BROKEN AND EGGING HIM ON. HE WAS A PART OF THE WHOLE BUILD-UP OF THIS STORY AND IT IS DEEPLY IRONIC HIS BOOK IS THE BOOK THAT IS BEING USED TO INDICATE THAT THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY. YOU CAN'T, IN YOUR WILDEST IMAGINATION IMAGINE ARMITAGE AS A PART OF THE PLOT TO UNDERMINE THE WILSONS. OF COURSE, CORN IS FRANTIC AND WRITING BLOGS AND WRITING IN THE NATION SAYING THERE WAS ANOTHER TRACK, WHICH IS A GREAT CONSPIRACY THEORY. THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER TRACK. SO, I THINK THAT THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THERE'S -- THERE WAS A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH CORN AND WILSON. >> Host: TALKING TO BOB NOVAK, IN URBANA, ILLINOIS THIS MORNING AT HIS ALMA MATER, UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS. NORTH CAROLINA, YOU ARE NEXT, GEORGE BUSH SUPPORTER. >> Caller: YES, THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU FOR C-SPAN AND MR. NOVAK, I'D LIKE TO STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THAT LAST CALLER. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE ON ANY KIND OF PUBLIC RELATIONS MISSION OR ANYTHING. IF ANYBODY IS, IT WOULD BE MR. WILSON. AND, BUT MY COMMENT WOULD BE ABOUT IT SEEMS LIKE THE FACTS OF THIS CASE ARE VERY DISTORTED AND THAT, BEFORE ANY INFORMATION WAS REALLY KNOWN BY THE MEDIA, IN PARTICULAR CHRIS MATTHEWS AND "HARDBALL," YOU KNOW HE TALKED ABOUT THIS ISSUE ALMOST EVERY DAY. THERE WAS A SEGMENT OF HIS PROGRAM THAT WAS DEVOTED TO THIS ISSUE. AND, YOU KNOW, JUST ABOUT EVERY DAY YOU TUNE IN, YOU WOULDN'T LEARN ANYTHING NEW, BUT YOU WOULD GET A LOT OF WHAT I WOULD CALL CONJECTURE, A LOT OF, WELL, IF THIS IS TRUE AND OUR GOVERNMENT IS DOING THIS, WHAT ELSE IS IT DOING? YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, LITERALLY, IF WERE YOU TO GO TO THE ARCHIVES, YOU'VE GOT LITERALLY DOZENS AND DOZENS, PERHAPS EVEN PERHAPS HUNDREDS OF HOURS BROADCASTING ON CONJECTURE WHAT ELSE IS OUR GOVERNMENT DOING IF IT IS DROPPING NAMES OF CIA OPERATIVES FOR POLITICAL USE. AND MY QUESTION WOULD BE HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK CHRIS MATTHEWS IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS STORY NOW THAT ALL OF HIS CONJECTURE IS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PROVEN TO BE MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING? >> Guest: WELL, THANK YOU. MY PROBLEM HERE, SIR, IS THAT I NEVER WATCH CHRIS MATTHEWS' PROGRAM BECAUSE I DON'T FEEL THAT I CAN POSSIBLY LEARN ANYTHING FROM ALL THAT SHOUTING AND BLATHER AND INTERRUPTING PEOPLE. I HAVEN'T WATCHED HIS PROGRAM IN YEARS. I DON'T KNOW MUCH WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THIS AND I DON'T CARE. I CAN IMAGINE THAT MR. MATTHEWS BELIEVES THAT BEING MISTAKEN IS, IN JOURNALISM, IS NEVER HAVING TO SAY YOU'RE SORRY. SO, I DON'T THINK HE'LL SAY MUCH OF ANYTHING. I WOULD SAY THIS THE -- MOST OF THE PRESS, REALLY, IGNORED THIS STORY. I THINK THEY INTUITIVELY FELT THERE WAS A BUILD-UP PHONY STORY. AT THE BEGINNING THERE WAS A LOT OF ATTENTION PLAYED TO IT AND A LOT OF BAD JOURNALISM ON THIS STORY. YOU COULD WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THE BAD JOURNALISM INVOLVED. BUT JOURNALISTS DON'T SAY THEY'RE SORRY. IN FACT, THEY NEVER EVEN SAY THEY'RE WRONG. IT'S PART OF, I THINK, WE -- WE ACCEPT THAT AS OUR -- AS OUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO BE WRONG. >> Host: BY THE WAY, WOULDN'T THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE THE RIGHT, IF THEY THOUGHT THAT JOE WILSON'S REPORT WAS INACCURATE, TOO, YOU KNOW, DO WHAT HE THIS -- WHAT THEY DO ALL THE TIME, IS RAISE THE IDEA THAT HE WAS WRONG? I MEAN, WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG WITH THAT? >> Guest: THEY SHOULD HAVE. IN THE COLUMN THAT -- YOU KNOW, THE COLUMN THAT CAUSED ALL THE TROUBLE, MY COLUMN OF JULY 14th OF, EXCUSE ME, 2003, IN WHICH I IDENTIFIED JOE WILSON'S WIFE AS A CIA EMPLOYEE, THAT WAS JUST A VERY SMALL PART OF THE COLUMN. THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL ABOUT HIS MISSION AND I SUGGESTED AT THE END OF THE COLUMN THAT THE QUOTED A VERY SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL. I WON'T SAY WHO IT WAS. A WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL IT WAS, WHO SAID THAT HE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO DECLASSIFY THIS REPORT AND RELEASE IT. I SAID IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA, TOO. I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE. IT WAS A -- ONE THING THAT IT'S NEVER SHOWN, IT WAS A SLOPPY JOB AND IT WAS AN ORAL REPORT, NEVER A WRITTEN REPORT. I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN DECLASSIFIED AND RE RELEASED BUT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT BEEN KNOWN FOR TRANSPARENCY AND HAS GOTTEN IN A LOT OF TROUBLE FOR BEING OVERLY SECRET TIFF. >> Host: SAN DOEG GO, GOOD MORNING. >> Caller: GOOD MORNING. THANK S FORS FOR TAKING MY CALL. I WONDERED IF YOU COULD REMINE ME AND PERHAPS ELABORATE MR. LIBBY'S ROLE IN ALL THIS. IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN HE'S ACCUSED OF PERJURING HIMSELF BUT THE LEAK OF THIS SEEMS TO HAVE COME FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT. I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN ELABORATE ON THAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> Guest: IT'S NOT THAT IT SEEMS TO. THAT WAS THE LEAK. WE KNOW THAT NOW. THAT WAS THE PUSSY-FOOT AROUND IT. THAT WAS THE LEAK TO ME AND THAT WAS WHAT APPEARED IN PRINT. I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT MR. LIBBY'S -- I FEEL SORRY FOR HIM, A VALUABLE PUBLIC SERVANT BUT DISAGREE WITH HIM IN IRAQ. I WAS VERY FOND OF THE VICE PRESIDENT AND I THOUGHT, I ADMIRED MR. LIBBY. I DON'T KNOW. I HAVE NOT -- I DIDN'T HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH HIM ON THIS. I'M NOT A PART OF THAT CASE. THERE WAS NO CRIME COMMITTED PRIOR TO THE INVESTIGATION. THE INVESTIGATION PRODUCED THE ALLEGED CRIME OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE AND PERJURY BY MR. LIBBY AND I DON'T KNOW THE FACTS OF IT, I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF IT. A TRIAL, IT'S COST HIM MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. IT'S DESTROYED HIS PUBLIC CAREER. BUT, ALL THIS HAPPENED AFTER MY COLUMN RAN. AND THE TRIAL IS SCHEDULED TO TAKE PLACE IN JANUARY. >> Host: I KNOW IT IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS BUT I'LL ASK YOU ANYWAY. HOW MUCH MONEY DID YOU HAVE TO SPEND ON LEGAL FEES? >> Guest: WELL, IT ISN'T ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS AND I SPENT TOO MUCH. BUT, IT WAS -- IT WASSING FOR LIKE WHAT MR. LIBBY SPEN, BECAUSE I WAS NOT A TARGET. I DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE ANY MISTAKES AND MY HOME PAPER, THE KUN TIMES WAS HELPFUL IN MEETING THOSE EXPENSES. >> Host: IT MIGHT BE INTERESTED TO KNOW WHAT EVERYBODY HAS BEEN SPENDING ON LEGAL FEES IF YOU TOTAL IT FOR EVERYBODY IN FRONT OF THE GRAND JURY AND EVERYTHING. >> Guest: OH, IT WOULD BE MILLIONS. THERE WAS ONE GENTLEMAN, A PRIVATE CITIZEN WHO I TALK TO FREQUENTLY AND THEY FOUND HIM SENDING AN E-MAIL TO KARL ROVE, IN WHICH HE TALKED ABOUT IT AND HE HAD TO SPEN AS MUCH ON LEGAL FEES AS I DID. HE WAS HAULED BEFORE THE GRAND JURY TWICE BECAUSE HE HAD SENT THIS E-MAIL TO KARL ROVE. THAT IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM WITH THESE SPECIAL PROSECUTORS. WITH MANY FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS BUT PARTICULARLY SPECIAL PROSECUTOR INVESTIGATIONS. THE LAWYER'S MINDS IS YOU GO, YOU SWEEP OUT AND LOOK AT EVERY POSSIBILITY. MUCH OF IT AMOUNTS TO NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. IT DOES CAUSE A GREAT DEAL OF EXPENSE, AS YOU SAY, BRIAN. >> Host: WESTFEEL, MASSACHUSETTS. GEORGE BUSH SUPPORTER. >> Caller: GOOD MORNING. MR. NOVAK, I'VE BEEN A FAN OF YOURS SINCE I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL IN 1960s. IT IS GOOD TO SPEAK TO YOU. >> Guest: THANK YOU. >> Caller: I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. WILSON REFERS TO A FRIEND OF HIS WHO RAN INTO YOU ON THE STREET AND YOU CAST AS PERSIANS ON WILSON. NUMBER 2, COULD YOU ELABORATE ON THE ROLE OF THIS MARK GROSSMAN FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT WHO WAS THE COLLEGE ROOMMATE OF WILL WILSON? AND, THREE, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHY THE 16 WORDS WERE TAKEN OUT? I MEAN, WHO IN THE CIA BROUGHT THAT TO THE WHITE HOUSE ATTENTION THAT THEY RENEGED ON THAT? AND, FOUR, WHY ISN'T WILSON AND PLAME INDICTED FOR CONSPIRACY? >> Guest: A LOT OF STUFF. FIRST QUESTION WAS, AS A MATTER OF FACT, I WAS RETURNING TO MY OFFICE, WALKING TO MY OFFICE AND NOW I CAN SAY IT FROM MY INTERVIEW WITH MR. ARMITAGE WHEN SOMEBODY GOT ME ON THE STREET AND STARTED HARASSING ME ABOUT WHAT A GREAT HERO JOE WILSON WAS AND I BLURTED OUT MY OPINION OF HIM, WHICH I SHOULDN'T DO -- I SHOULDN'T TALK TO TOTAL STRANGERS ON THE STREET. I TRY NOT TO ANYMORE. THEY OFTEN APPROACH ME, BUT I TRY TO SHOW MORE SENSE. THAT WAS NOT A SENSIBLE THING ON MY PART TO DO. BUT, IN THE GREAT SCHEME OF THINGS, NOT VERY IMPORTANT. WHAT WAS YOUR SECOND ONE? >> Caller: I DON'T REMEMBER. >> Guest: OH. >> Caller: LET ME MOVE ON. >> Guest: I TELL YOU WHAT, THE ANSWER TO THE -- I HAVE NO ANSWER TO ALL THE OTHERS ANYWAY. SO WE CAN DISPOSE OF THEM. >> Host: AN E-MAIL FROM A.F. A.F. NARREMAN FROM LEESAMVILLE, NEW YORK. I WOULD REQUEST THAT YOU ASK YOUR GUEST, ROBERT NOVAK, WHOM DID ARMITAGE SITE AS HIS SOURCES? ROVE, LIBBY? WHAT WAS HIS STATED PURPOSE -- >> Guest: GIVE ME A BREAK. IF YOU ARE A JOURNALIST AND YOU SIT DOWN WITH SOMEBODY, A DEPUTY SECRETARY, A SUBCABINET MEMBER TELLS YOU THAT PIECE OF INFORMATION, YOU SAY, WHAT'S YOUR SOURCE ON THAT? WELL, I DIDN'T ASK HIM HIS SOURCE. I CHECKED IT OUT. BUT, I WAS SURE THAT MR. ARMITAGE WAS NOT MAKING IT UP. HE WOULDN'T, YOU KNOW, MAKE UP THINGS LIKE THAT. HIS SOURCE HAPPENED TO BE A STATE DEPARTMENT MEMO. ONE OF THE REASONS HE SAYS NOW -- I AGREE WITH HIM ON THIS -- HE USED MRS. WILSON'S NAME, HE COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT, IN A STATE DEPARTMENT MEMO, THE NAME OF A COVERT AGENT WOULD BE INCLUDED. SHE WAS NOT A COVERT AGENT. THAT'S THE ONE PART OF THIS CASE THAT'S GOING TO BE DEBATED, I SUPPOSE, IN THE FUTURE. SHE WAS NOT A COVERT AGENT SHE WAS COVERED, SHE WAS NOT -- BUT EVERYBODY IN TOWN -- NOT EVERYBODY IN TOWN -- BUT A GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN TOWN KNEW SHE WAS WORKING FOR THE CIA. NOW, WHAT WAS HIS MOTIVE? I DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS MOTIVE WAS. HE HAD A REPUTATION LIKING TO PASS GOSSIP AND I SPENT A LOT OF MY -- IN MY 50 YEARS, ALMOST 50 YEARS IN WASHINGTON, I SPENT A LOT OF TIME HAVING PEOPLE GIVE ME INFORMATION AND I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY THEY DO. I HOPE I INJECT A KIND OF TRUTH SIRE RUM ON PEOPLE THEY TELL ME THINGS THEY SHOULDN'T. MAYBE HE WAS TRYING TO GET THE STATE DEPARTMENT OFF THE HOOK ON THE -- THAN THE WILSON MISSION THAT THEY WERE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR SENDING HIM. WAS THERE ANY OTHER QUESTION INVOLVED IN THAT? >> Host: YEAH, A SECOND ONE. WHAT YOU DID MEAN WHEN YOU STATED AT A CONSERVATIVE FUNCTION IN DECEMBER OF 2005, QUOTE, WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME? ASK PRESIDENT BUSH, HE KNOWS WHO THE LEAKER IS? >> Guest: YEAH, I THOUGHT THERE WAS NO REPORTERS PRESENT THERE BUT I THOUGHT THAT THE PRESIDENT KNEW IN 2000 -- DECEMBER 2005. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHEN HE FOUND OUT, BUT I HAVE FOUND THROUGH A VERY GOOD SOURCE THAT HE DID KNOW. HE DIDN'T FIND OUT ABOUT IT FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD, WITH -- BY READING THE ISACOFF CODES CORN BOOK OR HEARING ARMITAGE ON CBS. EXACTLY WHEN HE KNEW IT, I DON'T KNOW BUT I FOUND IT HARD TO BELIEVE IN 2005 HE DIDN'T KNOW IT BY THEN. >> Host: FRANKLIN, TENNESSEE FOR BOB NOVAK. GOOD MORNING. >> Caller: YES. THANKS FOR TAKING MY CALL. I WAS JUST CURIOUS. I DIDN'T READ YOUR ORIGINAL ARTICLE BUT WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT TO INCLUDE VALERIE PLAME'S NAME IN YOUR ARTICLE? WHAT WAS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF DISCLOSING HER IDENTITY AS A CIA OPERATIVE OR WHATEVER SHE WAS? >> Guest: THE QUESTION I ASKED MR. ARMITAGE WAS, WHY WE HAVE HAD BEEN DISCUSSING THE WILSON MISSION TO NIGER IN SOME DETAIL. I STILL CONSIDER MYSELF BOUND BY JOURNALISTIC RULES OF COMPETENCE TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS SAYING ABOUT THAT MISSION, WHETHER GOOD OR BAD. THERE WAS NOT FOR PUBLICATION. HE HASN'T REVEALED IT AND SO I'M NOT GOING TO. AT ONE POINT, IT WASN'T AT THE VERY ENDS OF THE INTERVIEW AS HE INDICATES, BUT NEAR THE END. AFNG I SAID, WHY WAS IT THAT JOE WILSON, NOT AN EXPERT IN INTELLIGENCE, NOT AN EXPERT IN MILITARY POLICY, NO EXPERIENCE FOR SOME TIME IN AFRICA, WAS SENT ON THIS DELICATE MISSION? AND HE SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, HIS WIFE -- I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD QUESTION. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ASKING THAT QUESTION, NOT PARTICULARLY HOSTILE WITH JOE WILSON. I WAS NOT HOSTILE TO HIM AT THAT TIME. AND HE SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, HIS WIFE REQUESTED IT. SHE SUGGESTED IT, I SHOULD SAY. SHE SUGGESTED THE MISSION? AND SHE WORKS FOR THE COUNTER-PROLIFERATION DIVISION AT THE CIA. I THOUGHT THAT WAS NEWS AND SO I PUT IT IN. I WRITE A LOT OF NEWS THAT MAKES PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE. AND I THOUGHT THAT IT ADDED TO THE STORY. I THOUGHT IT WAS SO IMPORTANT, I PUT IT IN THE EIGHTH PARAGRAPH OF A 13-PARAGRAPH COLUMN. THAT'S ROUGHLY WHERE IT WAS, RIGHT ABOUT IN THE MIDDLE. SO IT WAENT AN EARTH-SHAKING DEVELOPMENT BUT I THOUGHT IT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO BE PRINTED. >> Host: McPHERSON, KANSAS ON THE AIR. >> Caller: MR. NOVAK I WOULD LIKE TO COMMEND YOU IN THE AGE WHERE THE MEDIA SEEMS TO BE DOING MORE AND MORE BOMB-THROWING THAN BEING THE SPEAKER OF THE TRUTH. I FEEL IF THIS STORY HAD STUCK TO THE WAY THE LIBERALS WANTED IT TO, YOU PROBABLY WOULD BE UP FOR A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE. BUT MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THIS LAWSUIT? AND HOW FAR DO YOU THINK IT WILL GO? >> Guest: OKAY. I KNEW THERE WAS ONE QUESTION FROM THAT -- ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE I DIDN'T ANSWER AND THAT WAS, SHOULD JOE AND VALERIE WILSON BE INDICTED. I AM CERTAINLY -- I KNOW OF NO LAW THAT THEY HAVE BROKEN. THE LAWSUIT, I AM NOT A LAWYER, BUT MOST OF THE LAWYERS I HAVE BEEN TOLD THINK THAT THE LAWSUIT IS GOING NOWHERE, THAT THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT THERE WAS AN AMIMUS AND DESIRE TO DESTROY JOE WILSON, PARTICULARLY IN THE CASE OF JOE ARMITAGE WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO DECIDE. SO, I WOULD GUESS IT GOES NOWHERE. BUT WE ARE A VERY LI TIJ JOUS COUNTRY WITH A COUNTRY OF LAWYERS, IF I COULD MAKE AN EDITORIAL COMMENT, WE HAVE TOO DAMN MANY LAWYERS IN MY OPINION. ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN IN THE COURTS IN THIS COUNTRY, NO MATTER -- A FINAL JUDGMENT BY THE WILSONS IS NOT -- PROBABLY NOT POSSIBLE. THEY WANT TO KEEP THIS STORY ALIVE. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO KEEP IT ALIVE NOW. MRS. WILSON HAD A VERY FAT BOOK CONTRACT, WHICH, FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER WAS CANCELLED. THEY SAID THEY GOT ANOTHER ONE JUST AS GOOD. I HAVEN'T HEARD WHAT THE NAME OF THAT BOOKHOUSE WAS OR IF THERE IS ANOTHER ONE BUT THEY'D LIKE TO KEEP THE STORY GOING. >> Host: ARE YOU GOING TO WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THIS? >> Guest: NOT ABOUT THIS, OH, NO. I HAVE A MEMOIR WHICH I HAVE FINISHED AND I HOPE TO BE ON C-SPAN SOMEDAY TALKING ABOUT IT. IT WOULD BE -- WON'T BE PUBLISHED UNTIL NEXT YEAR. IT'S A -- PENT FORM ABOUT TWICE THE LENGTH OF "WAR AND PEACE" SO WE HAVE TO CUT IT BACK. BUT, IT'S ABOUT MY CAREER AND PARTICULARLY MY 50 YEARS, IT WILL BE 50 YEARS IN MAY IN WASHINGTON. >> Host: DENIM SPRINGS, LOUISIANA. >> Caller: YES, THANKS, BRIAN, FOR C-SPAN AND LETTING ME GET ON. I'D LIKE TO ASK MR. NOVAK, HE STATED THAT ARMITAGE WAS HIS PRIMARY CONTACT. BUT HE ALSO STATED, SOMEWHERE ALONG THERE, HE HAD SECONDARY. WHO ELSE CALLED HIM AND TIPPED HIM OFF TO VALERIE PLAME BEING THE CIA -- >> Guest: WELL, I REALLY -- I REALLY HATE THESE DISTORTIONS, YOU KNOW. YOU MAKE THINGS UP THAT YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT. NOBODY CALLED ME. I DIDN'T SAY THAT MR. ARMITAGE CALLED ME. I WAS -- I WAS IN AN INTERVIEW WITH HIM AND RAISED A QUESTION AND HE ANSWERED IT. AS FOR THE SECONDARY AND TETIARY SOURCES I REVEALED THEM IN COLUMNS SOMETIME AGO BECAUSE THEY REVEALED THEMSELVES, ONE THROUGH HIS ATTORNEY AND ONE BY HIMSELF AS MY SOURCES. SO, THERE WAS NO SECRET THERE. THE SECONDARY SOURCE WAS KARL ROVE. I CALLED HIM UP AND TOLD HIM, DID YOU KNOW THIS -- AND I TOLD HIM THIS STORY. AND HE SAID, OH, HE SAYS, YOU KNOW THAT, TOO? I TOOK THAT AS A CONFIRMATION. THAT'S ALL HE SAID ABOUT IT. HE DIDN'T CALL ME. THE THIRD SOURCE WAS THE PUBLIC INFORMATION DIRECTOR AT THE CIA, BILL HARLOWE, WHO ASKED ME NOT TO WRITE THE STORY. DID NOT SAY HE COULD NOT SAY SHE WAS AN UNDERCOVER PERSON, DID NOT SAY SHE WAS IN DANGER BUT OBVIOUSLY CONFIRMED MRS. WILSON WAS EMPLOYED BY THE CIA. >> Host: DAVID CORN WILL BE ON THIS NETWORK MONDAY AT 7:45 AND WRITES IN HIS BLOG HERE ABOUT YOUR COLUMN YESTERDAY. HE SAYS, NOVAK, AS HE ACKNOWLEDGES DID NOT TAKE NOTES OF THIS HOUR-LONG CONVERSATION, THAT'S WHAT RICHARD ARMITAGE, WHICH MIGHT STRIKE SOME REPORTERS AS ODD GIVEN HE HAD BEEN ENDEAVORING FOR YEARS TO SNAG AN INTERVIEW WITH HIM. OUTSIDERES ARE LEFT WITH A HE SAID-SHE SAID TUSSLE BUT THE LATEST ACCOUNT SEEMS TO CONTRADICT AN EARLIER VERSION. >> Guest: WELL, MR. CORN IS A NASTY PIECE OF WORK, LET ME TELL YOU THAT. AND HE WAS THE ONE WHO REALLY BUILT THIS STORY UP. HE IS IS IN A DELICIOUSLY IRONIC SITUATION. HE WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE, MUCH MORE THAN CHRIS MATTHEWS, FOR BUILDING THIS STORY UP AT THE OUTSET AND ADVISING JOE WILSON, WHICH HE NEVER PUTS IN HIS COLUMN. AND, HE IS IN THE POSITION WHERE I THINK MOSTLY THROUGH INVESTIGATIVE WORK BY HIS PARTNER, MR. ISACOFF, HE IS REALLY A PARTY TO BREAKING DOWN THE STORY AND MICKING IT APPEAR THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY AT ALL. WHICH MUST -- MAY ACTUALLY DESTROY HIM. NOW, HE IS SO INAUDIBLE ON ME AT THIS THAT HE IS TAKING -- SEEMS TO BE TAKING ARMITAGE'S SIDE IN A DISPUTE OVER WHAT WAS SAID. HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT WAS SAID THERE BECAUSE THERE WAS ONLY TWO PEOPLE THERE. I SAW IN MY COLUMN, OF COURSE WHICH HE DIDN'T QUOTE, I HAD RECONSTRUCTED MY CONVERSATION SHORTLY AFTER I SAW MR. ARMITAGE BECAUSE HI TO WRITE A COLUMN. I THINK MR. ARMITAGE MAYBE RECONSTRUCTED HIS FOR PROSECUTORS MONTHS LATER AND I THINK MY ACCOUNT IS CLOSER -- NOT CLOSER TO THE TRUTH, IT COMPLETELY TRUTHFUL BECAUSE I HAVE SWORN TO IT UNDER OATH AND I KNOW EXACTLY AND I'VE REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. I FIND IT RECENTLY A LEFT-WING IDIOLOGUE, SHOULD DISPUTE MY TECHNIQUES FOR 50 YEARS. I HAVE BEEN SITTING DOWN WITH HIGH GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS FOR INTERVIEWS FOR A HALF -- FOR -- SINCE THE COLUMN STARTED 44 YEARS AGO AND EVEN BEFORE THAT WHEN I WORKED FOR "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" AND AM VERY MUCH, TO TRY TO GET THESE PEOPLE INTO A CONVERSATIONAL TONE OF VIEW, WHERE YOU GET INFORMATION FROM THEM AND I GOT A LOT OF INFORMATION FROM MR. ARMITAGE. I STILL WON'T ATTRIBUTE TO HIM BUT LATER APPEARED IN LATER COLUMNS. AND, IT IS OFFPUTTING TO HAVE A PENCIL AND PEN TAKING DOWN WHAT HE SAID. I DIDN'T SAY, I'M NOT GOING TO QUOTE YOU ABOUT THAT, BUT VERY NERVOUS ABOUT IT. THE TECHNIQUE I HAVE USED FOR MANY YEARS AND I THINK I HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY ACCURATE ON IT AND I THINK HE IS JUST DESPERATELY TRYING TO FIND SOME WAY TO KEEP THIS STORY OOOH LIVE FOR HIS FRIEND JOE WILSON. >> Host: HOW OFTEN DO YOU NOT TAKE NOTES. >> Guest: ALMOST ALWAYS. AN INTERVIEW WITH A CABINET MEMBER, SOMEBODY LIKE COLIN POWELL, SOME SECRETARY OF TREASURY TREASURY, I ALMOST NEVER TAKE NOTES. I THINK IT TURNS IT INTO A MUCH MORE STERILE THING. I'M TRYING TO GET INFORMATION, A TECHNIQUE I THINK A LOT OF REPORTERS USE. I DON'T THINK MR. CORN IS REALLY A REPORTER AS MUCH AS HE IS AN EDITORIALIST SO I DON'T THINK IS REALLY INTERESTED IN GETTING FACTS BUT PUTTING ON A LINE. >> Host: BELL LA VISTA, ILLINOIS ON THE AIR WITH MR.BOB NOVAK. >> Caller: I LOVE YOUR COLUMN AND WONDER IF YOU THINK PRESIDENT BUSH WOULD PARDON MR. LIBBY. >> Guest: WELL, I WOULD HOPE HE WOULD PARDON HIM. THE PRESIDENT IS THE LEADER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. OBVIOUSLY, HE'S NOT GOING TO PARDON HIM BEFORE THIS ELECTION. OF COURSE, WILL HE PARDON HIM BEFORE THE TRIAL? I FEEL GREAT SYMPATHY FOR MR. LIBBY. I WOULD HOPE THAT HE WOULD, BUT THAT'S A, OBVIOUSLY, PRESIDENTIAL DECISION. >> Host: DAYTON, OHIO. >> Caller: HI, BRIAN. THANK YOU FOR C-SPAN. MR. NOVAK, EARLIER, YOU COMMENTED ON I THINK IT WAS CHRIS MATTHEWS AND "HARDBALL" I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY YOU NEVER GET ANY INFORMATION FROM SUCH SHOWS. THAT'S NOTHING BUT YELLING AND PARTISAN BICKERING BUT I FIND IT IRONIC IT'S KIND OF A MIMIC OF "CROSS-FIRE" JUST PEOPLE IN BOXES INSTEAD OF ON THE STAGE WITH YOU. AND THAT, I MEAN, KIND OF MIMIC THAT SHOW BEING THE KIND OF PRO TO TYPICAL PARTISAN BICKERING SHOW AS "CROSS-FIRE." MY QUESTION AFTER JON STEWART CAME OUT AND POINTED THIS OUT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, I WONDER IF IT WAS HIM THAT CAUSED "CROSS-FIRE" TO BE CANCELLED OR SOME OTHER REASON? >> Guest: THE NEW MANAGEMENT THAT CAME IN DIDN'T LIKE IT, DIDN'T LIKE THE SHOW. I WAS ON "CROSS-FIRE" OFF AND ON FOR A QUARTER OF A CENTS REE AND I THOUGHT, PARTICULARLY -- FOR MOST OF ITS LIFE, I THOUGHT "CROSS-FIRE" WAS NOT LIKE THE CHRIS MATTHEWS SHOW. ALTHOUGH I SHOULDN'T BE TOO CRITICAL OF CHRIS MATTHEWS BECAUSE I BE HAVEN'T SEEN IT IN YEARS. IT WAS TERRIBLE WHEN I DID SEE IT. BUT, I DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IN WRITING MY MEMOIRS, I GOT SOME OLD TAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS AND IT WAS SURPRISEINGLY CIVIL MOST OF ITS CAREER. IT WAS INTENSE MOST OF ITS CAREER. PEOPLE DIDN'T SHOUT OR INTERRUPT EACH OTHER. I THINK IT IS A REFORMATION WITH A LIVE AUDIENCE AND WITH MY FRIENDS JAMES CARVILLE AND INAUDIBLE HAS BECOME MORE DISCORDANT OVER THE YEARS SNOO ARE YOU DOING THE SAME IN YOUR MEMOIR, WILL THERE BE NEW INFORMATION WE HAVE NEVER HEARD BEFORE? >> Guest: YES, THERE WILL BE. THERE WILL BE A LOT OF NEW INFORMATIONS. I'M REVEALING SOME SOURCES. I DON'T REVEAL ALL MY SOURCES. I REVEAL SOME. I'M GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF PEOPLE MAD, BUT -- THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF PEOPLE MAD, MR. LAMB, BUT MOST OF THEM ARE DEAD. SO, THEY CAN'T PROTEST. >> Host: YOU'VE BEEN AROUND THIS EARTH SINCE FEBRUARY OF 1931 MAKING YOU ABOUT 75 YEARS OLD. HOW MUCH LONGER ARE YOU GOING TO DO THIS? >> Guest: WELL, I THOUGHT I WOULD HAVE STOPPED LONG AGO, BUT I HAVE NO RETIREMENT PLANS. I DON'T HAVE ANY HOBBIES EXCEPT GOING TO SPORTS EVENTS AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT FULL-TIME. SO, I DON'T THINK I'LL EVER STOP. I THINK YOU'LL -- I HAD THOUGHT MY MEMOIRS, I WOULD TELL EVERYTHING AND MAKE EVERYBODY MAD AND GO INTO THE GRAVE THAT WAY. BUT, I'M GOING TO KEEP GOING AND, AS LONG AS PEOPLE WILL LISTEN TO ME AND I'M NOTW A CONTRIBUTOR WITH FOX NETWORK, THEY'VE BEEN VERY NICE TO ME AND STILL KEEPING MY COLUMN STILL GOING. NOT AS BUSY AS I USED TO BE BUT -- >> Caller: MR. NOVAK, I FORGET WHERE I READ IT, WASN'T IT TRUE JOE WILSON ACTUALLY OUTED HIS WIFE IN HIS BIO IN "WHO'S WHO"? ECHLT WELL, LET ME TELL YOU THE FULL STORY ON THAT. WHEN I -- WHEN I TALKED TO MR. ARMITAGE AND GOT THE FACT THAT HIS WIFE WAS -- WORKED FOR THE CIA AND SUGGESTED THE MISSION AND THEN GOT A CONFIRMATION, A ONE-SENTENCE CONFIRMATION FROM ROVE AND THEN TALKED ABOUT HIM IN -- FROM MR. HARLOEWE FROM THE CIA, WHO CONFIRMED WITH THE CI I A, I NEVER GOT HER NAME. NOBODY TOLD ME HER NAME. SO, I AS AN INTRE PD ID REPORTER GOT A COPY OF "WHO'S WHO" AND THERE WAS HER NAME, VALERIE PLAME SO I PUT IT ON. >> Host: CHARLESTOWN, RHODE ISLAND ON WITH BOB NOVAK. >> Caller: I'M CALLING TO SAY HOW MUCH I'VE REALLY ENJOYED MR. NOVAK AND BEING ON "CROSS-FIRE" AND "CAPITAL GANG." I WAS BORN IN 1932, SO WE ARE ABOUT THE SAME GENERATION AND WENT THROUGH AND THIS BUSINESS ABOUT VALERIE PLAME, IT SEEMS SO DRY TO ME COMPARED TO WAYNE HAYES AND ANNABELLA ANNASTELLA, I THOUGHT THAT WAS A RIOT. >> Guest: MORE FUN, WASN'T IT? >> Caller: ANOTHER THING I WANTED TO MENTION YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT JANET RENO. I THOUGHT TO HAVE THAT PICTURE GOING AROUND FOR THE WORLD FOR OUR COUNTRY WAS, I MEAN, WAS JUST TERRIBLE. I MEAN, WHERE IS THE RULE OF LAW? THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. WELL, THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY. THANK YOU. >> Guest: THANK YOU. I AGREE WITH YOU SNOO MR. NOVAK, AFTER -- THERE HAVE BEEN SOME DEEP FEELINGS ON ALL THIS SUBJECT IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS. ARE THERE PEOPLE THAT IN LONGER TALK TO ABOUT THIS? HUH THE DIFFICULTY WITH CNN, YOU LEFT THERE. ARE YOU ANGRY ABOUT MUCH OF THIS STUFF? >> Guest: NO, I'M NOT ANGRY, I'M NOT ANGRY AT ALL. I'VE HAD A BLESSED, CHARMED LIFE AND I THINK I'VE BEEN VINDICATED ON THIS STORY. JUST TO CORRECT YOU SLIGHTLY. ON CNN, MY CONTRACT EXPIRED ON JANUARY 1st, 2006, AFTER 25 YEARS, HAD BEEN RENEWED REPEATEDLY OVER THOSE YEARS. I WANTED TO LEAVE CNN. I THOUGHT THE TIME HAD COME TO GO AND THEY WANTED ME TO LEAVE SO IT WAS A MUTUAL, HARMONIOUS PARTING. THEY DIDN'T SAY I HAD TO GO. IN THE ISIKOFF-CORN BOOK, THERE'S AN IMPLICATION -- I'M SORRY, THERE IS ANOTHER BOOK, I WON'T PUBLICIZE IT, INDICATING I WAS FIRED BUT IT WAS MUTUAL FEELING. I WOULD SAY THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED IN, WHO ATTACKED ME ON THIS -- ON THIS STORY. I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO DETAIL ON THIS PROGRAM THIS MORNING. I WILL SAY, TOO, THAT, BECAUSE OF THIS STORY, MY CONTACTS WITH THE ADMINISTRATION WERE REDUCED BY THE -- BY THE CHOICE OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND BY THE CHOICE OF THE ADMINISTRATION. NOT ENTIRELY BY ANY MEANS. I HAVE VERY GOOD CONTACTS THERE BUT THERE WERE SOME CONTACTS THAT WERE COMPLETELY SEVERED. I THOUGHT TA WAS A MISTAKE ON THEIR PART BUT THAT'S THEIR CHOICE. I HAVE LIVED THROUGH A LOT OF AD PENSTRATIONS, BRIAN, AN HAD VERY SLENDER CONTACT WITH A LOT OF THEM BUT YOU CAN ALWAYS FINE SOME WAYS TO GET THE NEWS. I STILL HAVE THAT. I THINK PROBABLY THE LOW POINT IN MY CONTACTS WAS TOWARDS THE END OF THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION WHEN NOBODY WAS TALKING TO ME AND I STILL GOT A LOT OF NEWS OUT OF IT, NEWS THEY DIDN'T WANT TOLD. SO, I'M NOT THE KIND OF REPORTER THAT NEEDS HIGH-LEVEL ACCESS. I CAN PROSPER WITH LOW-LEVEL ACCESS AND SO I'M NOT -- NIP NOT BITTER AND UNHAPPY. THE ONLY THING I REGRET IS HAVING TO PAY THE LEGAL FEES BUT, LUCKILY I WAS ABLE TO ABSORB THEM. >> Host: KITTYHAWK, NORTH CAROLINA FOR BOB NOVAK. >> Caller: GOOD MORNING. MY QUESTION IS IN MR. FITZGERALD KNEW FROM THE BEGINNING WHO THE LEAKER WAS, WHY GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE EXERCISE? >> Guest: WELL, I IMAGINE HE WOULD TELL YOU HE WAS TRYING TO FIND WHETHER THERE WAS A PERIOD, A CONSPIRACY GOING, THAT THERE WAS SOME KIND OF A PLOT THAT INVOLVED THE VICE PRESIDENT'S OFFICE AND KARL ROVE AND GOODNESS KNOWS ALL THINGS ALL WORKING TOGETHER IN SOME SINISTER PLOT. THAT'S THE WAY LAWYERS ARE AND PARTICULARLY INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, SPECIAL COUNSELS, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ANYBODY REVIEWING THEIR JUDGMENTS. THEY ARE ALL UNTO THEMSELVES. AND PERHAPS MR. FITZGERALD WAS -- DID THE RIGHT THING, I DON'T KNOW. IT CAUSED A LOT OF PEOPLE PAIN BUT I WOULD SAY THIS WOULD BE THE RATIONALE. OF COURSE, HE IS CONTINUING THE SESGATION TO FIND IF THERE WAS A CONSPIRACY AT WORK AND IT WASN'T JUST POOR OLD ARMITAGE GIVING ME THIS INFORMATION. >> Host: KATHLEEN OF ATHENS, OHIO WRITES THIS MORNING HOW CAN ARMITAGE BE THE FIRST LEAKER WHEN "SCOOTER" LIBBY LEAKED INFORMATION ABOUT VERY REEALERIE WILSON/PLAME TO JUDITH MILLER OF. >> Guest: THIS IS PART OF THE DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO TRY TO ENGAGE THIS AS A WHITE HOUSE PLOT. THE ONLY PERSON, THE FIRST REVELATION OF THIS STORY WAS BY ME. AND I CAN'T -- I CAN'T DEAL WITH STORIES THAT DIDN'T GET WRITTEN. SO, THIS WAS MY FIRST SOURCE. IT WAS THE FIRST SOURCE THAT APPEARED IN PRINT AND IT WAS THE SOURCE THAT CREATED THE APPOINTMENT BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OF THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR. THAT'S WHAT THEY APPOINTED HIM FOR, TO LOOK INTO THE LEAK THAT APPEARED IN MY COLUMN. >> Host: WOULD MR. FITZGERALD HAD CONTINUED THE INVESTIGATION BECAUSE HE FOUND THAT BOB WOODRUFF HAD BEEN GIVEN THIS INFORMATION BEFORE YOU HAD GOTTEN IT AND IN THE WHITE HOUSE THEY HAD BEEN SPREADING THIS WORLD BEFORE YOU TOLD IT, WOULD THAT POSSIBLY BE THE REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE CONTINUED IT? >> Guest: WELL, HE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT WOODWARD FOR SOME TIME TO COME, AFTER HE HAD GONE FAR AFIELD ON THIS INVESTIGATION. I RATHER -- I THINK MR. FITZGERALD IS A MAN OF INTEGRITY, NOT A POLITICAL PERSON AT ALL. I REGRET THAT HE CARRIED THIS THIS FAR BUT I DON'T QUESTION HIS INTEGRITY OR I DON'T QUESTION HIS DESIRE TO DO THE RIGHT THING. BUT, I CERTAINLY CAN'T INTERPRET WHY HE WOULD OR WHAT HE WOULD HAVE DONE UNDER HYPE CAL CIRCUMSTANCES. >> Host: HOUSTON, TEXAS GO AHEAD, PLEASE. >> Caller: HELLO, MY NAME IS BRENDAN RYAN FROM HOUSTON, TEXAS AND I WATCHED A LOT OF "CROSS-FIRE" WHEN I WAS A KID. I'M ONLY 24 YEARS OLD, BUT I HAD WATCHED "CROSS-FIRE" FOR ABOUT AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER. AND I DON'T THINK THAT CHRIS MATTHEWS DOES ANY JUSTICE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AS FAR AS INFORMATIVE -- INFORMATION ON ON POLITICS AND WHAT'S GOING ON IN WASHINGTON. I THINK "CROSS-FIRE" WAS A MUCH DIFFERENT SHOW. IT OFFERED MUCH BETTER DEPTH INTO POLITICS IN WASHINGTON AND THAT I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THERE NEEDS -- THERE NEEDS TO BE ANOTHER SHOW LIKE "CROSS-FIRE". >> Host: THANKS. MR. NOVAK. >> Guest: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> Host: THAT BRINGS UP THE QUESTION HOW MUCH TELEVISION DO YOU WATCH, WHAT OTHER SHOWS DO YOU WATCH AND DO YOU SPENDS MUCH TIME IN FRONT OF THAT TUBE? >> Guest: WELL, I HAVE A -- YEAH, I DO SPEN A LOT OF TIME. I'M ABLE TO DO, WHAT'S THE FANCY TERM NOW, MULTI-TASK. I'M ABLE TO WRITE AND TALK ON THE TELEPHONE AND WATCH TELEVISION AT THE SAME TIME. PRETTY GOOD FOR AN OLD MAN, ISN'T IT, BRIAN? I HAVE A TELEVISION SET RIGHT NEXT TO MY TERMINAL AT WORK AND I HAVE ONE NEXT TO MY TERMINAL AT HOME. AND, I DO A LOT OF C-SPAN WATCHING. I REALLY ENJOY. I WATCH -- I WATCH THE SENATE AND HOUSE, PARTICULARLY THE SENATE. I GET A LOT OF STORY IDEAS FROM THAT AND WATCH OF C-SPAN AND WATCH THE CABLE NETWORKS CONSIDERABLY. BUT, I DON'T -- I DONT'T WATCH -- I HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS, WHICH I WON'T GO INTO. THIS IS NOT THE CHRIS MATTHEWS SHOW, BUT I JUST DON'T WATCH THAT PROGRAM. AND I CERTAINLY, IF SOMEBODY MENTIONED THE JOHN STEWART PROGRAM, I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT IN MY LIFE AND I WILL GO TO MY GRAVE NEVER HAVING SEEN IT. >> Host: WHY? >> Guest: I DON'T -- I DON'T SEE ANY REASON FOR IT. IT'S A COMEDIAN, SELF-RIGHTEOUS COMEDIAN TAKING ON AIRS OF GRANDEUR AND I REALLY DON'T NEED THAT. POLITICIANS ARE FUNNY ENOUGH WITHOUT A PROFESSIONAL COMIC. >> Host: LAKE CITY, TENNESSEE. GOOD MORNING. WE DON'T HAVE LAKE CITY. WE HAVE GASTON, ALABAMA. YOU'RE ON THE AIR. >> Caller: THIS IS THIS ME? >> Host: THAT'S YOU, GO AHEAD, SIR. >> Caller: WELL, MR. NOVAK SAID HE LEFT CNN AND HE WAS KIND OF GLAD OF IT. I SUPPOSE HE'S PROUD TO BE WITH FOX. HE OUGHT TO BE RIGHT AT HOME WITH THAT NETWORK. HE DIDN'T LIKE CHRIS MATTHEWS, BUT I'LL BET HE LIKES OLD SHAWN HANNITY, THE WAY HE INTERVIEWS HIS GUEST AND SAYS YOU SAY WHAT I WANT YOU TO SAY OR EITHER SHUT UP AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY. >> Host: MR. NOVAK? >> Guest: I SAY MR. HANNITY, YES, I DO LIKE HIM, A VERY PERCEPTIVE CALLER. I -- PERCEPTIVE CALLER. I BELIEVE HE HAS A COUNTERPART, MR. COLMES AND THEY DO A GOOD JOB WITH THE STORIES. >> Host: LAST CALLER. >> Caller: I ADMIRE YOU SO MUCH WHAT HAS SAID DID YOU AND YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS CALLING IN ON THE LINE. THEY SAY I'M A REPUBLICAN BUT AND VALERIE PLANE AND JOE WILSON SHOULD BE SHUNNED, AT ALL THIS VOSHL EVENTS AND NOT WORRIED ABOUT BEING ASSASSINATED LIKE SHE SAID. SHE WAS NOT COVERT. SHE WANTED TO GET HIM OUT OF TIME AND HE SAT OVER THERE LIKE HE SAID HIMSELF AND DRANK TEA WITH HIS FRIENDS AND SHE QUITS HER JOB BECAUSE I'M SURE DAVID CORN AND HE'S A NASTY LITTLE MOUTH AND HIS MOUTH REMINDS OF TWO TOILET SEATS FLAPPING TOGETHER. I'M SURE HE TOLD THEM THEY WOULD GET BUCKS. MOTHERS NEED YOU WHEN THEY ARE AT HOME NOT OFF AT SCHOOL. >> Guest: WELL, THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU KNOW THE, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE, A CONSIDERABLE NUMBER OF PEOPLE COULDN'T GET THE EDITORIAL PAGE OF "THE WASHINGTON POST" OR "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" HAVE COMMENTED THAT THIS IS KIND OF THE END OF THE ADMISSIONS BY MR. ARMITAGE, THE REVELATION OF MR. ARMITAGE, KIND OF ENDS THIS WHOLE STORY. IT'S THE -- IT WAS BLOWN OUT, WAY OUT OF PROPORTION. BUT THE WILSONS LOOK VERY BAD. I HAVEN'T WRITTEN THAT, THAT COLUMN, BECAUSE I'M, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, A PARTY TO THIS CASE. WHAT I HAVE TRIED TO DO IS TELL ALL THE THINGS I COULD DO TELL. NOW I CAN TELL JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT THE CASE, AND I HAVE. AND I HOPE I ADDED TO THE UNDERSTANDING. BUT, THAT THIS IS -- THIS WAS A CASE THAT WAS BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION, I BELIEVE, TO TRY TO DESTROY PRESIDENT BUSH. THERE'S A LOT -- A MARKED LACK OF INTEREST BY DEMOCRATS RIGHT NOW IN THE ARMITAGE REVELATION. THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. THEY DON'T ADMIT THEY'RE WRONG. AND FINE PEOPLE LIKE MR. CORN ARE DESPERATELY TRYING TO SAY THE ORIGINAL STORY WAS CORRECT. BUT, I ALMOST THINK THIS STORY IS OVER, BELATEDLY AND WITH VERY GOOD REASONS. >> Host: THIS MORNING AT 11:15 IN THE ROSE GARDEN SA PRESS CONFERENCE WITH PRESIDENT BUSH. NO INDICATION WHAT THE TOPIC IS. ALTHOUGH SOME THINK IT MIGHT BE ABOUT DETAINEE LEGISLATION IN CONGRESS. FINAL QUESTION TO YOU. WITH THIS LETTER THAT COLIN POWELL HAS WRITTEN TO JOHN McCAIN AND WITH ONE OF HIS TOP AIDES, LIEUTENANT COLONEL OUT ON THE TALK SHOW CIRCUIT SAYING NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT THE ADMINISTRATION AND WITH THE FACT THAT THE RICHARD ARMITAGE WAS LEAKING THIS INFORMATION TO YOU, DO YOU THINK THAT COLIN POWELL WILL EVER BREAK WITH THIS PRESIDENT PUBLICLY AND DENOUNCE THIS WAR? >> Guest: I DON'T THINK HE WILL. THAT'S JUST A GUESS ON MY PART. I LIKE GENERAL POWELL. I TALK TO HIM OCCASIONAL LYLY. I THOUGHT HE WAS RIGHT IN BEING CAUTIOUS ON THE ADVANCE POLICIES OF THE ADMINISTRATION CONCERNING IRAQ AND THOUGHT HE WAS WRONG WHEN HE WENT TO THE UNITED NATIONS TALKING ABOUT THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. I DIDN'T THINK HE HAD THE GOODS THEN. THESE THINGS ARE NOT THAT EASY. NOT EVERY CONSERVATIVE IS A WARHAWK. NOT EVERY LIBERAL IS A TRAITOR. BUT, I THINK THAT COLIN POWELL IS A MILITARY MAN AND I BELIEVE HE'S A LOYAL -- HE BELIEVES IN LEAKING THIS INFORMATION TO YOU, DO YOU THINK THAT COLIN POWELL WILL EVER BREAK WITH THIS PRESIDENT PUBLICLY AND DENOUNCE THIS WAR? >> Guest: I DON'T THINK HE WILL. THAT'S JUST A GUESS ON MY PART. I LIKE GENERAL POWELL. I TALK TO HIM OCCASIONAL LYLY. I THOUGHT HE WAS RIGHT IN BEING CAUTIOUS ON THE ADVANCE POLICIES OF THE ADMINISTRATION CONCERNING IRAQ AND THOUGHT HE WAS WRONG WHEN HE WENT TO THE UNITED NATIONS TALKING ABOUT THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. I DIDN'T THINK HE HAD THE GOODS THEN. THESE THINGS ARE NOT THAT EASY. NOT EVERY CONSERVATIVE IS A WARHAWK. NOT EVERY LIBERAL IS A TRAITOR. BUT, I THINK THAT COLIN POWELL IS A MILITARY MAN AND I BELIEVE HE'S A LOYAL -- HE BELIEVES IN LOYALTY. I THINK HE'S BEEN VERY CAREFUL, CERTAINLY NOT TO CRITICIZE THE PRESIDENT WHILE HE IS IN -- WHILE HE'S STILL IN OFFICE. AFTER PRESIDENT BUSH LEAVES OFFICE MIGHT BE ANOTHER MATTER. BUT, BREAKING WITH THE PRESIDENT WHILE HE'S STILL IN THE OVAL OFFICE I WOULD GUESS WOULD BE HIGHLY UNLIKELY ON COLIN POWELL'S PART. >> Host: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BOB NOVAK. HAVE AN ENJOYABLE WEEKEND AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS. WE HOPE TO SEE YOU AGAIN SOON. >> Guest: THANK YOU. >> Host: THAT'S IT FOR TODAY. HAVE A NICE WEEKEND. AND C-SPAN WILL HAVE ITS REGULAR "WASHINGTON JOURNAL" TOMORROW MORNING AT 7:00 AND THE PRESIDENT'S NEWS CONFERENCE AT 11:15.

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